Tori Boats [00:00:00]:
Awesome. Okay. We’re here with Maggie Perotin and I’m so excited. She’s my guest today and I’m going to let you know about a little bit of her background. She helps service based business owners scale in a way that creates freedom building businesses that can thrive without them. She’s an international coach and has nearly 20 years of leadership experience. So you’ll find her online as the host of the Diamond Effect podcast and you’re a podcast listener, so get over there and listen to her on that. She’s been featured on some of the network giants like USA Today, cbs, ABC and NBC. That’s so exciting. Maggie’s all about smart growth. That doesn’t affect sacrifice. Excuse me, doesn’t sacrifice joy. And I think that’s so important. Speaking of joy, she lives in Toronto with a blended family of four, count them, four kids. And she likes the outdoors, traveling and dancing. And Maggie, that’s something that we share, which is a love of dancing. So what kind of dancing?

Maggie Perotin [00:01:04]:
You know what, Annie? I used to do, so I’m immigrant to Canada. I’m originally Polish, so for many, many years I was doing this like folk dance in a group in high school and we sort of traveled with it and we did a bit of contemporary, but it wasn’t at the level that I see my daughter doing now. Right. And ultimately any dance, I’ve done a little bit of lessons of, you know, Latino dance and ballroom dance. But anything I think dance is amazing in a way. You can brings you joy and you can express yourself. I love it.

Tori Boats [00:01:39]:
That’s one of my favorite things. I started ballet as an adult. I was young though, like 18, but still I did ballet and jazz and hip hop and tap and break dancing and anything I could get my hands on and get into a class and. And it was my outlet. So I totally get wanting to dance and using that as what a great outlet for creativity and 100%. Yeah. There’s just so much to it. Travel or productions, you learn a lot that you don’t expect to learn about yourself. Yeah, yeah, we definitely share that.

Maggie Perotin [00:02:19]:
Awesome.

Tori Boats [00:02:20]:
All right, so we’re going to begin. This is a different kind of piece podcast episode that you may be listening to differently. So instead of doing a business interview style, we are going to be an advisory board mastermind or thought leadership, thought partnership kind of episode where we’re going to bounce this idea off of it, off of each other. And we’re listening in on Maggie’s business and her growth edges things that she’s considering in her own business. So Maggie, will you begin with the context of where your business is today and what the purpose of the business is?

Maggie Perotin [00:02:59]:
Yeah. So the purpose of the business, let’s start with that. And my mission is really to empower business owners, predominantly service based business owners, to think differently about their business and grow it in a way that’s sustainable. There’s so many business owners that hustle or they think that they have to and they’re working 247 in it thinking, you know, I have this business, I love what I’m doing and I need to be in it 247 where they miss out on living or living the personal part of their life. And at the same time I understand that their passion is one so I want to help them to sort of create more of a balance or harmony, however you want to call it. And, and at the same time as they’re growing that business, create an asset that down the line they can sell. And many service based business owners don’t think that they’re like, oh, I’m just gonna fold it down and I’m gonna retire. Right. So they’re saving or they don’t know how to do it. They would love, they love the idea but they don’t know how to do it. And I think it’s, you know, I really believe that small and medium sized businesses are critical to the economy. They bring a lot of jobs in our communities. There is more money left when a small business makes money in the community rather than large corporation. So I want to empower these people to thrive in all aspects of their life because then their businesses thrive and then there’s this ripple effect. Right. You hope one person and then their family benefits and their employees benefit and all those things. So like that’s my mission and purpose.

Tori Boats [00:04:41]:
No, that’s fantastic. A sellable asset is definitely something to consider. And I, I think you’re right about a lot of service based businesses don’t think of that or they think of that later as they’re starting to think about getting out and what could they have been doing the years before to set their business up? So very smart aspect.

Maggie Perotin [00:05:00]:
Yeah. They, they can be doing that much earlier.

Tori Boats [00:05:03]:
Yeah.

Maggie Perotin [00:05:04]:
While enjoying life and then be more ready rather than oh in three years. If I run exit, what do to do in like big panic right now I’m like sweating.

Tori Boats [00:05:14]:
Yeah. Okay, so now we’re going to move into. Where do you see your business going and what is the idea or opportunity or question that you have? We started a bit with like ahead of the episode I’m looking at strategic decisions because there are so many options that business owners consider. It could be overwhelming, distracting, all the things, chaos. So share with us where you’re looking to go and a little bit about what that question or opportunity is.

Maggie Perotin [00:05:48]:
Yeah. So where I am right now, so there’s of course where I want to go, like short term and long term. So where I am right now, I offer group coaching for starting business owners. For business owners who are, you know, just growing. Their income is somewhere between four figures to barely six figures. And so that’s, I have a group set up and then anybody who is at six figures and above, I have one on one. Okay. So that’s where I am right now. My long term vision, I would love to be this go to practical business academy for service based businesses who very often start their businesses for the love of what they do, how they help their clients. Right. So I’m a professional organizer, I love to organize, I’m a stylist, I love to style, I’m a, I don’t know, a therapist. I love to be a therapist but don’t have business background. And, and, and they realize at some point that that’s topping them. But then again, at the same time they’re busy, they’re running business, they don’t necessarily want to go to business school and all those things. A lot of those things that are not practical. Right. So my long term vision is to create this sort of academy for the business owner that is very practical, that helps them achieve the goals that they have in a very practical manner, but also fills that gap of business skills that they’re missing and that’s what’s stopping them.

Tori Boats [00:07:27]:
So that’s why is it like almost like a, a replacement for an MBA or school?

Maggie Perotin [00:07:35]:
Kind of like that. Yeah, right. A replacement. Like instead of going to MBA. And a lot of MBAs are really. I’ve done an MBA.

Tori Boats [00:07:44]:
Right. Me too. I’m like, oh, did it really help me be an entrepreneur? Well, right.

Maggie Perotin [00:07:50]:
So Most of the MBAs are really corporate driven. There is a little bit of entrepreneur there, but there’s a lot of corporate driven. And when you’re an entreprene entrepreneur and small business application of that can be challenging. Let’s just call it that way. Right. So it’s almost like an entrepreneurial mba if we want to call it like an mba, like if that could be really focused on entrepreneurs. Very practical, minimal theory. Just enough to understand. Right. Where we’re coming from, why we’re doing things. We’re doing and really applicable to the point where, okay, I’m learning something I can implement like that day in my business. Right. So that’s my vision. Okay.

Tori Boats [00:08:33]:
How far away do you want that to be a focus?

Maggie Perotin [00:08:39]:
Well, I would say maybe within five years. I don’t like to put like 10 years. You never know what happens. But within the next five years, that would be great.

Tori Boats [00:08:49]:
And is it when we think about the coaching aspect of your business versus this, is it a move to that or is it a separate offering or almost like a division or separate business where there’s the coaching pieces on is different than the school?

Maggie Perotin [00:09:07]:
Yeah, no, I think it’s like a merge and merging of that. So it’s more a transformation into that because I this school. The challenge with traditional school is you learn and then you have to figure out how to apply on your own. And you go back and you’re busy and you’re like, oh, I don’t know how to apply. Right. The power of coaching is that the coach help you actually apply. It supports you. It’s done with you. Right. And I see that in the results of my clients where when I coach them, they get results. Right. And not because only I teach them and I help them develop certain knowledge, but because I’m there with them while they’re developing the skill. It’s kind of like really having a pro athlete, having a coach learning this skill set and getting better and better, whatever sport they’re doing. Right. So it’s very powerful. So I would like it to be together now. I might not be the coach who will coach everybody. Right. If we’re scaling that, I might need to hire and train coaches and so on. But I really, I like to see the progress and the results. I don’t want to just teach. Teaching doesn’t fulfill me because teaching, I know somebody will just take the knowledge, but I have no idea whether they’re implementing or not. And that’s not fulfilling for me. What’s fulfilling for me is seeing the person implement and grow and make incredible results. And that’s for me. I’m so proud. I feel amazing when I see that.

Tori Boats [00:10:40]:
My, my little, my little tears are coming. I don’t know why. I get excited too, I suppose. Do you see in the work that you’re doing with your clients now, do you see that you’re already sharing some of this knowledge naturally in the way that you coach them? Is it an evolution? And because you have clients that are at different stages, the five figure versus the six figure stage, maybe emerging Businesses or some are perpetually small on purpose. So I don’t mean that they all have to be beginners. Yeah. How do you see this playing into what you’re doing now and this the point at which they would come into your world for the coaching?

Maggie Perotin [00:11:29]:
You mean at point. Where would they come in the future?

Tori Boats [00:11:37]:
Let me ask it this way. Do they start with the. Are they looking for the education and they start with the education and then coaching is part of that. Um, and. Or is it something that they kind of do together? Meaning.

Maggie Perotin [00:11:53]:
Yeah. Are they learning and then together they do the power. Right. So I guess the way I’m doing it now and I see it works is that I teach you only what you need to get you to the next level and prepare you for the long term. And I know that because of course we have a very good relationship. Right. So then you only learn kind of what you need and then you apply. Right. So I see it that way because like I am all. I’m a very operations is my thing and I’m very a person who likes efficiency. You know what I mean? Like I don’t like personally, even in my own life waste time to learn something that I might use and my never use or, or do something that I don’t know how. So I always think about my clients like how can I give them the knowledge that they need right now in order to achieve the next goal or prepare them for whatever they’re the long term and then with strategies and help them implement it right away. So how do you have to be together?

Tori Boats [00:13:04]:
How do you see what you’re doing today, laying the foundation for this, this like entrepreneurial mba? Is it just that you want to codify and make it repeatable what you’re already teaching or is this new curriculum that you want to kind of put your brain on?

Maggie Perotin [00:13:28]:
So I would say so if I. It’s a great question, I think like if I went to that, let’s just call it academy, right? Or entrepreneur mba and I wanted to help entrepreneurs at different stages then with my current group. I’m almost there in a way where I know what I need to codify. I haven’t fully done it and that’s like I’ve been thinking about the short term goal of maybe starting that next year and then kind of having that curriculum and support. Whereas with my one on one, I still need. I think I would still need a little bit more Runway with the Run101 clients to determine how would I codify what it have to be? Because right Now I have a big span of clients from like early six figures to seven figures. Right. So, like, their challenges are different. So I would. That would definitely require more work and thinking about do I need to break it down in certain stages of their growth. Right. Certain sizes and how it would look like. But yeah, like that. Codifying that. Creating a system that then helps people learn faster and then helps me, let’s say, train the coaches to understand it and then support people in implementing that. For sure.

Tori Boats [00:14:54]:
So cool that you said stages, because as you were talking right before this, I wrote down stages of business, stages of size. Like what applies to different ones. So totally on the same page. I. I want to check in. Yeah. Have you thought a lot about this yet or is this kind of a first brainstorm for this particular idea?

Maggie Perotin [00:15:23]:
I think it’s a first time I. I’ve had this vision, like, but it’s been very distant and I think it’s the first brainstorm that I’m doing with you for that long term idea, which is kind of cool.

Tori Boats [00:15:37]:
It’s so cool. That’s my favorite point. I love it. So, yeah, I get excited. Are you starting to see things sort of come together?

Maggie Perotin [00:15:48]:
Yeah, Yeah. I definitely see now because I. The way I’ve been thinking short term for it, it’s like, okay, I, I have an idea to cut. Let’s just call it codify the group. And then I’m like, oh, I’m still 101, but at some point maybe I want to do a mastermind. But it’s been separate. Right. Whereas now as we’re talking, I’m like, no, no, no. This is actually together. Now, of course, within that there might be different offers, Right. Depending on the stage of the business, the client that’s coming in. But now I see it more holistically together rather than these two separate routes.

Tori Boats [00:16:29]:
Yeah, that’s important. I’m. If, if you guys see me, if you’re on the, the video version of this on YouTube and you see me looking down a lot, I think by writing words. So that’s what I’m doing. All right, so I think we have a really interesting revelation here, which is that it’s no longer a separate thing that you’re designing. You’re in building. It’s now what you’re already doing. Now the next step really in that, the way I see it, and tell me if you agree, is deciding, almost deciding where you want to start with the stages or levels. It’s getting that out almost like a book outline. But you’re Building an encyclopedia set. Right. Which book of that set do I. What does the set look like? What is the flowchart or whatever. Where do I start? And because you have such a disparate group of folks that you work with, I wonder what would it be like if you were to pick your favorite stage of the current clients you have concentrate on doing some lead gen of that particular stage to get a more of a mass for that. I don’t mean like 50000 people.

Maggie Perotin [00:17:45]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tori Boats [00:17:47]:
And kind of playing with that group with doing this. How does that. How does that feel?

Maggie Perotin [00:17:52]:
Yeah, no, that it’s actually great suggestion. It is a great suggestion because you’re right. Sometimes when you’re spreading too in too many different stages, then you know, it’s great for me because I love variety. Like I’m a Sagittarius. But I don’t think as you say, it’s not great in concentrating certain stage to quickly see the patterns and say, oh, this is how my academy would work. Right. So for that stage, this would be that book. Right. So I agree with you. And that’s actually pretty good idea to do it at that. Those stages.

Tori Boats [00:18:40]:
Would. It’s almost like it can be very overwhelming to be like, oh, I have to create this whole big new thing.

Maggie Perotin [00:18:46]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:18:47]:
When really you could be creating it now as you go and talk about sellable asset.

Maggie Perotin [00:18:55]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:18:56]:
You know, even if you were just to build one book of that whole stage one, if you were to concentrate on just one stage of your business and get that to a point, wherever you would be in the I guess the life cycle of almost like education evolution of an entrepreneur, you could start early on, you could go in the middle, you could go in the end. And with what you do with selling or not with selling necessarily, but just posing the idea to service business owners. Have you thought about selling your business? Have you thought about building it as an asset? Do you even know where to start? Like that could be where you begin your curriculum. It could also be emerging businesses and purposefully helping emerging businesses that know that they want that as their endpoint. What does it look like to start with that, with that end in mind and then as they get there build that curriculum. There’s so many places start like I have chills. It’s so exciting. And you know, I think this is where the options for business owners to consider that can be overwhelming.

Maggie Perotin [00:20:03]:
Right. And distracting.

Tori Boats [00:20:05]:
I think this is where it comes in. Oh, but where do I start? So first, how did that land? And second, if that. If that is kind of what you’re thinking. Where would you start? Where would you want to start? Where is your heart kind of pulling you?

Maggie Perotin [00:20:23]:
Yeah. So see, that’s the thing. Where do I start? I definitely love it. So I think I, I don’t know if I would want to start in the beginning emerging businesses, because I do know that. I don’t know. I actually know a lot, but, but I don’t think many businesses, especially service based, start that thinking. Like, oh yeah, I just want to grow it and sell it. I think that realization potentially comes later if it comes and, and just based on my experience working with them.

Tori Boats [00:21:08]:
Yeah.

Maggie Perotin [00:21:09]:
So I think a good start would be in that stage where they either are about to start hiring a team or they have a very small three to five people team. So they, they’re gaining some momentum. Right. They’ve gained some momentum and now they’re realizing, okay, I’m still involved in every aspect of my business. Like, business cannot run without me. I am ambitious, I want to grow it. But now I’m scared because I think it means more time, more work, which I don’t have. And then I don’t, I feel stuck in that. I don’t know how. And then very often at that point they realize, yeah, there’s some gaps in my skill set. Like there are some things that I don’t have. Yeah. And this is a great point to actually start setting your business as an asset. This is a great start to start systemizing, putting the processes in place, you know, creating the culture because you don’t have a big team yet. This is, you can start hiring and so on. So I, I think that’s great point to even give them the idea you can actually through systemic processes, not just like improve the quality of your business and allow it to scale, but in live a life as well. But also that can lead to you being able to sell it on the line if you want it.

Tori Boats [00:22:37]:
Yeah, I think that’s an important point is I’ve had a customer’s like, I’m thinking of Jordan. You guys don’t know Jordan, but let’s just say she’s in the health and wellness industry. She’s at a point in her business where she is looking to grow. She has a great life. She’s built enough systems that it’s easy to get clients and deliver. She’s got team members in the back end, but she’s still the delivery person. And when she thinks about, I want to grow to the next level, I want to go and I don’t want to increment from 1 million to 2 million to 3 million. I want to go to 10 million because I don’t want to be doing this for 15 years. I want to see my new vision right now. And she has no idea what it looks like. She’s never been, she’s never been in a larger business. She’s never been in corporate. She’s never, she’s kind of started this for herself, hasn’t had formal training. And that can feel so overwhelming.

Maggie Perotin [00:23:39]:
It can again.

Tori Boats [00:23:40]:
Yes. And I think that your idea for building those systems as you go with the option to kind of enjoy your life and not feel overwhelmed and the secondary option of and you can sell it because we’re building it purposefully is so important.

Maggie Perotin [00:23:59]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, as you say, like very often people just don’t know how to go about it and they don’t even ask. You know, like there’s sometimes they don’t even consider like, oh yeah, I could sell it on the line because they didn’t see it as an option. So yeah, I think that would be a good place to start in that stage. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:24:25]:
Okay. I’ve steered us down the path. I feel, I feel like, oh, I’m steering us down the path of we’re. You’re going to build curriculum that helps them sell. But let me, let me check in because I know that you have that as a piece, like an option in what you can help your clients do. But I don’t want to be influencing you in your thought in this pattern because it’s so it’s just forming that that’s what your curriculum is going to be on. So I want to take a step back personally and say, okay, how do, how does it feel with where you’re going now and what is it looking like? Like what do you think about your next step, so to speak.

Maggie Perotin [00:25:04]:
So next, like in that area, right? Like just what we discussed.

Tori Boats [00:25:09]:
Yeah.

Maggie Perotin [00:25:10]:
So next step I would go into like brainstorm, not, not that we haven’t brainstormed, but actually I like to like talk things through and then go back on my own and sort of write things out. How, what it would look like, you know, narrow down the stage, what they would need and so on and then short term decide, like as you say, okay, maybe I just create an offer, whether it’s a one on one and so on for that particular niche and just focus on that to bring people in to sort of start working with them, see the patterns, see the components of that one book, encyclopedia, I like that analogy. You know, even if it’s just next year. Right. Doing it for next year and then from there go, okay, now were creating that first part of the academy with all that data, all that, you know, knowledge and then turn the 101 into the first part of the academy. I guess that’s what I’m thinking.

Tori Boats [00:26:27]:
Yes. We talked about a lot. I want to invite you to take a breath with me for a moment.

Maggie Perotin [00:26:34]:
It’s like.

Tori Boats [00:26:37]:
Just kind of let that out. If you were to reflect on the end state of this academy.

Maggie Perotin [00:26:47]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:26:49]:
What outcome, direction or curriculum comes to mind as the most exciting.

Maggie Perotin [00:27:04]:
Direction? I don’t know if I’m fully understanding. So I will reply the way I understand. But if you don’t, then what’s more most exciting for me is, can be very. Okay. I would just say it the way I think. Like what’s most exciting to me seeing a large number of people in, in a room growing, having success. Like, like truly so. And just saying like, hey, I am helping them do that through my team. Right. Because at this point I’m not doing everything alone and I’m not delivering everything alone. But we’re helping them succeed. We’re actually empowering them to do what they want in a way that maybe they didn’t think was possible.

Tori Boats [00:28:06]:
I, I wonder because, because we’re talking about a set of books. If you have this entry point, like here’s where they are in their business. You were very clearly articulated that. Yeah. And here are some possible paths that they could choose to go down.

Maggie Perotin [00:28:25]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:28:26]:
Directions. And the, the, the general path of everyone coming in is scaling.

Maggie Perotin [00:28:32]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:28:33]:
Growing in a way that allows them to not be the only one delivering or over or pressure or. I’ve lost my train of thought. But anyway, they’re all coming in, going down this path and then they kind of diverge into their interest. I’m interested in staying the course and selling. I’m interested in succession through my family. Like I want to hand my business down to the next generation. I just want to go to retirement and close my business. Like there’s almost different outcomes as they start and continue. I see that as a future. Maybe the complexity once you get your initial offer cohort going to have a more structured. Not criteria but the things that you’re working on them with have that be more structured in that middle part of the business when they’re just bringing on team and then as they go they’re going to have different interests and it’s almost like the group will start To. To determine and help you determine. What do I create and develop next? What’s the next criteria?

Maggie Perotin [00:29:42]:
Right.

Tori Boats [00:29:43]:
Or you do this again. Well, now I, as you, I, Maggie, want to really explore this particular path in the next stage. So building a cohort out of what you already have to do that and build that next piece of the academy.

Maggie Perotin [00:30:01]:
Right, yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.

Tori Boats [00:30:07]:
That’s really exciting.

Maggie Perotin [00:30:09]:
Yeah. And I can see that because, you know, very often business, that’s what happens. Right. Your clients tell you, this is what I want next. Can you give it to me? Like, I like working with you and so on. Right. Like, very often that comes. That comes. So that’s a very good point.

Tori Boats [00:30:31]:
All right, so we have here so far, we have some revelation. Revelations. It’s not a separate business divide. You can do it with your current business, like start to correct. Create this academy curriculum. You’ve noticed that you don’t want to start at the very beginning. Emerging businesses, because they don’t really have the idea for scaling, they don’t have a need for it. And you really bring a strength there with your operations. Your. The way you think about operations, efficiency, improving things in the business in the back end and in. Even in the front end of the business. And we haven’t even touched on team. I know you help people with teams.

Maggie Perotin [00:31:14]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:31:15]:
So bringing that piece into it and your experience there gives you that starting point and then even your next step, which might be. It might be brainstorming. But I think, I think the brainstorming is really about getting that group and that offer together and seeing if that sales like seeing how that feels and being very intentional about what you want to do with that group, which, yes, you do group coaching now, but instead divergent.

Maggie Perotin [00:31:48]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:31:49]:
Stages. You have a solo stage.

Maggie Perotin [00:31:51]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:31:53]:
What do you think about that?

Maggie Perotin [00:31:55]:
Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Brainstorming. I agree. Brainstorming would be more on the offer, that initial offer, what it would look like, and then going and testing it. Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:32:11]:
Yeah. Do you feel how it’s different, the brainstorming activity or next step now versus earlier?

Maggie Perotin [00:32:20]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:32:21]:
Does it feel any different?

Maggie Perotin [00:32:22]:
It does feeling. It’s more, you know, focused.

Tori Boats [00:32:26]:
Yeah. I find that we’re all creative and when someone says, you’re creative, bring your creativity to work, and I’m like, yeah, I have no idea what that means. But if you can give your creativity a box, almost like a container, and say, I want you to unleash yourself around this particular thing, whether it’s a problem to solve or a focus.

Maggie Perotin [00:32:50]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:32:50]:
Wow. I mean, I. Amazing things can happen.

Maggie Perotin [00:32:55]:
It’s true. It’s true. And constrained, you know, and it’s proven right, scientific that constrained helps creativity. Right. When you constrain yourself ladder then let yourself lose on everything that you could be doing and all the ideas. When you constrain that to certain. To whatever it’s important to you to whatever you decide that actually helps creativity.

Tori Boats [00:33:20]:
Yeah, I think so too because that gives you, it gives you something to focus. It gives your brain a problem to solve.

Maggie Perotin [00:33:28]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tori Boats [00:33:29]:
Versus enjoying life as things come into your viewpoint.

Maggie Perotin [00:33:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tori Boats [00:33:35]:
Have you ever, have you ever had an idea where it feels like it’s almost like a butterfly that comes into your peripheral vision and escapes everyone’s and you’re trying to be, you’re trying to get work done and this stupid thing keeps bothering you but it really is something that you, if you turn and pay attention to it. Like have you ever had that happen to you?

Maggie Perotin [00:33:55]:
Oh yeah, yeah, I, I have. I can’t think of the specific example, but I usually write it down. I usually write it down. I actually wait here. There was an idea. What was it? Oh, okay. So that was just more of a strategy tactical idea for next year. Like oh, what if I do this type of thing, right? So I usually write it down and I let it set and then like with this one, because it’s a more of a tactical idea for next year, I will go back to it when I do a bit of planning for next year’s strategic planning because that’s at least it will allow me to consider the idea because sometimes like we have. Oh, let’s get, just get distracted. Right. I would chase this idea in front of like. No, no, no. I decided to focus on whatever, on whatever I’m doing now so that I write those down.

Tori Boats [00:34:53]:
Yeah, I, I like that. I know you have a. So at the time of this recording, we’re coming to the end of the year, we’re in October and Maggie is going to be playing with an idea of doing a public vision board fun co working and I, I love that idea. I, I know you may never do it again, but the idea of looking back at a list of ideas you’ve had or brainstorming about things to consider going forward into the next year can be really powerful because I, I think sometimes and I know in corporate planning we think about what is the growth target I need to hit next which is usually year over year growth. It’s 5%, 10%, 15%, whatever the growth is that you’re, that you’ve done before. Corporate wants you to do it again and better. And that becomes the guiding force or the direction that you take the business, which is just growth for growth’s sake. And it doesn’t give you an ability to take a step back and imagine what your future can be. Imagine the change that you can make. And I think that’s often missed where in small business or in privately owned firms, we get the luxury of really doing that for ourselves. And having that list that you showed us is, you know, kind of powerful. It, it reminds us to do that.

Maggie Perotin [00:36:18]:
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I was just even reflecting recently. I was like, yeah, I started the business to do things the way I want and do things that I enjoy. And it doesn’t mean that it’s not hard. Sometimes you’re not enjoying 100% of the time. Doing this is not bad. But if you know, you, you have an idea, you want to switch things up and so on, you can do that. Right. It’s as you say, the growth for the sake of growth in the corporate world that becomes, that can become so soul draining. And I’ve lived that. I’ve, you know, we both been in a corporate world. I’ve burned out in the corporate world that I don’t, I don’t want that in my business. Right. Like so reminding yourself, yes, of course I have big visions and so on, but how I do it, to an extent it matters. That journey that I’m going through to create that goal matters to me.

Tori Boats [00:37:26]:
So, yeah, it’s funny, people used to say, stop and smell the roses, you’re going too fast. And that never appealed to me. But the journey, meaning how you’re feeling every day as you do your work, that’s what’s important. And it’s all, I think that’s often lost in the. I don’t. They’re called idioms, but whatever those things are called, where stop and smell the roses, you know, those little sayings. I think that’s where we, we don’t really get what the saying is about. And you bring it up beautifully, which is to stop and make sure you’re doing it on purpose the way you want, and you get to change your mind. I think that’s. I think folks will often not commit to a big goal because it feels overwhelming or scary or they don’t want to destroy what they’ve done. But then they don’t ever get to feel that next level and they forget, you know, you can always change your mind. I think that was a lesson that I really had to learn. Oh, I don’t have to be married to an idea and master it in order to learn that it was the wrong direction anymore.

Maggie Perotin [00:38:39]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I. And you know, I think of. It happens to all of us. Right? It happens to me. I coach my clients saying, you can. Yeah, you can set a goal. You can commit to it. Because you have to commit to a goal to. To. To even have a chance to achieve. Achieve it. And at the same time, it’s not written in stone. You can change that if in the pursuit of it, you discover that maybe that wasn’t the goal that I wanted. I thought it was. But then in the pursuit of it, and I’m giving it my own and so on I want. It can always change your mind.

Tori Boats [00:39:19]:
Okay, so as you mentioned, culture early on, and I want to take what you just said and kind of stretch it out. When you Think about serving 50,000 people through your program, I think that was the number and having other coaches to support your clients and your business. What does that look like?

Maggie Perotin [00:39:42]:
I don’t know if 50,000 people was a number. It says carry number, but maybe that should be my group.

Tori Boats [00:39:47]:
That’s your new number. It’s 50,000.

Maggie Perotin [00:39:49]:
Okay, okay, okay. Five years from now, let’s keep it in five. 50,000. The culture. And given that I haven’t given it that much thought, but I would just take it from what’s important to me and what I love. Well, respect is like first. Okay. So that’s always respect of the other human being, of their goals and what they want and their ideas, their innovation. And that comes towards the clients, but also towards my own team members. Like, I always loved, you know, in my own corporate world to help my team members, like, bring their ideas, bring their things to what they thought was good. And I always was surprised what amazing ideas they would come up with. But he’s like, oh, that’s so good. I never thought of it. So having that culture in my company and helping that clients instill that and always think, you know, yes, we’re there as coaches or experts to support the clients, but they also have knowledge and experience where they. We bring that out and together, like, that’s when the magic happens. So that’s first. With the respect comes also like the innovation and growth. Growth is important to me. And of course, with US Academy helping clients scale, that growth comes. But it’s not necessarily just growth in. In numbers, like in. In money. Right. But it’s growth in the skill set in how we think about Things growing as a leader, as a human being. My core belief is you cannot outgrow your business. Meaning you need to grow as a leader first of your business in order for the results, like tangible money results to catch up.

Tori Boats [00:41:53]:
Right.

Maggie Perotin [00:41:53]:
Like that doesn’t. So that growth, that’s what it means. Another thing would be service. So in service to our clients, serving the communities that we are in and our clients are in. So service, giving back. I’m, you know, I find myself very lucky throughout my life and I always been grateful to people who helped me and so on. Were never achieving anything alone. So there’s giving back and service and fun. And fun. Having fun because business can like we get. So when we, especially when we’re ambitious and highly achieving. Right. Which I am and my clients are, I’m sure Tori, you are as well. So we can lose sight of it and we can be so focused on like you know, like achieving the goals. Achieving a goal that we forget to pause and smell the roses or even laugh and have fun as we go. So not forgetting that fun would be.

Tori Boats [00:43:04]:
How do you, as you, as you think about like the values that you’re instilling. How does your role, how do you see your role evolving and maybe, maybe we take that five year view first and then pull it back to a year from now.

Maggie Perotin [00:43:24]:
A year from now.

Tori Boats [00:43:27]:
So are you, are you still delivering?

Maggie Perotin [00:43:30]:
I’m definitely delivering, but not 100%. So I would start bringing and figuring out. Yeah. What type of support and other coaches would I need to deliver. So I am involved a year from now. Realistically I probably be majority of it involved but with support.

Tori Boats [00:43:54]:
I mean if you, if you go out to that final kind of where you have the team.

Maggie Perotin [00:44:01]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:44:03]:
How do you. I can see that you would, it seems like you’d be now their coach. Investing in the coaches. That and their evolution as leaders in your company.

Maggie Perotin [00:44:14]:
Yes. So then they can support the clients.

Tori Boats [00:44:17]:
Some people, some people, that’s what, that’s the role they want to have. That’s their nurturing role. That’s where their coaching takes them. And other folks want to hire that in and they see themselves still creating curriculum or being in touch with a subset of their clients or, or even, even still others want to kind of live beyond or work beyond their business, which is thought leadership. Being the head of a non profit or really focusing on a charitable contribution or starting another business. Maybe it’s their second or fifth. So there’s so many different ways that you can grow in your role. Which of those. Or something I didn’t mention feels like a right fit for you right now.

Maggie Perotin [00:45:06]:
And you know, that might change. Talking about changing your mind, you never know.

Tori Boats [00:45:10]:
Yes.

Maggie Perotin [00:45:12]:
But right now, definitely, I see myself empowering my team members to help the clients, if anything, still developing like thought leadership together, brainstorming on curriculums, being involved in one way or another. I, I don’t know to what extent, but that, and if anything, like I have this definitely I would love to do some events, whether it’s once a year, whether it’s things so like being involved in that and maybe participating, being a little bit more with the clients, maybe during the events, maybe not in like the day to day. So that’s where I’m seeing myself right now. I might have ideas five years down the line, but for now, okay.

Tori Boats [00:46:01]:
Yes. And for the listener, the reason I ask Maggie that question is as overachievers as I am, and she mentioned she is as well, we can hone in on a goal, an ambitious goal that’s a project and go full steam without considering our own identity and how we fit into that. And we just kind of fall into one of the roles and forget that it’s not de facto, that might not be the right word, but it’s not the given that that’s, that’s what has to happen. We get to choose. And I, I find a lot of technical owners, like I advise technical business owners and they are programmers or rocket scientists or some kind of inventor at heart. And now they have a company and they’re mired in management. And I have one guy who’s a cryptologist and he bought another business to do a training arm and now he’s mired in the merger and not knowing what to do and personnel issues. And he thinks that he has to have that as his next role when that’s not the case. And in fact, because he bought another business, he’s got employees and leadership that he can bring in to take over some of those roles and he never even thought of it. So I find it’s important to consider your own identity. And so Maggie, you’ve played along with that very well. Thank you. Because your identity, you get to choose and change your mind and evolve with the company and evolve how? What service and what your role gets to be with your new team. Because your team is going to surprise you.

Maggie Perotin [00:47:52]:
Yeah. 100.

Tori Boats [00:47:53]:
Whatever skills they bring and interest they bring to enrich the pot.

Maggie Perotin [00:47:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that you can never predict. Right. That’s why staying sort of open to that. Yeah. Like that can evolve. That can change is so important and not like locking yourself completely. And it has to be that way or highway thing. Right. Because of that, as your business grows and your. Your team, you never know what they will bring and that. That the value that they will unlock in a way in your business for sure.

Tori Boats [00:48:29]:
All right, as we get toward the end of our episode, I want to check in again first. We’re going to take a breath because I’m excited. So let’s just. Yeah, okay. And as we’re now grounded and kind of calm, what stands out to you as the most surprising thing that you kind of learned about this new vision you have?

Maggie Perotin [00:48:58]:
So couple of things. One is just thinking of it as a one piece cohesive, like with certain parts. Right. And not like these two separate paths that I’ve been thinking just based on my right now. So that was a great revelation. The second, just you helping me narrow down. Okay, where do I start? Which is the hardest part?

Tori Boats [00:49:23]:
This is the hardest part.

Maggie Perotin [00:49:26]:
So that was great. And then thinking about it or just even expressing it. Yeah. Like, where do I see myself? What’s my role? Or how do I see my role in five years? Being open to it, potentially being a bit different, but like having at least a vision for that. I think those were three most powerful pieces.

Tori Boats [00:49:51]:
Excellent. And what are you going to do as a deck step? Like, what can you feel comfortable? Commitment is hard, especially after a brainstorm, because there’s the vulnerability period afterward where you’re like, oh, did I just commit to something? So I don’t mean that. I mean, what is the next almost journal exercise, thought exercise or action or just going out for a walk kind of thing that you want to do to solidify what we talked about and to come up with a game plan.

Maggie Perotin [00:50:22]:
So definitely offer so that, like that first offer to think through that and like think through journal, kind of create something. Right. Like the first draft of. Of the offer.

Tori Boats [00:50:36]:
Oh, I love that because it’s so concrete. It went from thinking about it, brainstorming on it. I’m going to have a first draft of an offer that can make this thing go forward. Very powerful.

Maggie Perotin [00:50:50]:
Thank you. Thank you for bringing it out for me.

Tori Boats [00:50:55]:
My favorite thing to do. So thank you for having fun on my podcast with me because it’s like, handy. All right, so we have put a bow on this conversation, but we’re not done. I would love to know what can the listener do to stay in your world to learn more about you, to take this journey with you on what this offer ends up evolving into. Like, what can they do to get in your world next?

Maggie Perotin [00:51:24]:
Yeah, so social media on Instagram and LinkedIn under my name, Maggie. Maggie. Or you can just, you know, check the links on my website, stowwaytoleadership.com I will probably talk about it in my podcast, so you can tag along in my podcast. And, Tori, by the way, if you are gonna share with me this recording, I will put it as an episode in my podcast. So that would be. That’ll be great. So, yeah, so those in those series, I’ll try to kind of unravel and share my thoughts. And as the journey.

Tori Boats [00:52:06]:
Yeah. Progresses, that would be fun. And, guys, that’s the host. She’s the host of the Diamond Effect podcast.

Maggie Perotin [00:52:14]:
Yeah.

Tori Boats [00:52:15]:
So get over there. And I’ll have links, of course, in the show notes so you guys don’t have to worry for driving. We will get these things out to you. You can come back in. Press that button.

Maggie Perotin [00:52:25]:
All right.

Tori Boats [00:52:26]:
Well, thank you, Maggie. It’s been fabulous having you on the podcast today.

Maggie Perotin [00:52:30]:
Yeah, thank you, Tori, for having me. It was a lot of fun. I appreciate it. I didn’t know what to expect, but I have to say, I had a lot of fun.

Tori Boats [00:52:37]:
Well, it’s an experiment, as always. I’m always doing experiments, so it was awesome.

Maggie Perotin [00:52:41]:
That’s awesome. Thanks.