Tori Boats:
Your backstage pass awaits. This is an advisory style episode. It means that I’m abandoning the typical interview format to deep dive into a challenge faced by my guest in their own business. It’s your chance to peek behind the curtain and see how key decisions around growth and scaling really get made. You’re going to love diving into this episode with us. Welcome to the podcast. We’re on Scale Right Revolution, and this is a special advisory episode, and I have a guest, Marisa Corcoran. Welcome.

Marisa Corcoran:
Hey Tori, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Tori Boats:
This is a long time coming because I’ve known Marisa for many, many years, and she’s helped me with my copy. Actually, she’s helped me understand how to be myself as I write and to be comfortable with who I am and expressing myself naturally as I am. And I gotta tell you, Marisa, oh, it has taken me a long time to be okay with being the nerd-tastic leader and allowing that part to come out and to really recognize that I kind of am that way and not to hate on myself about it.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, I know. And I feel like you’re really thriving in the nerdastic leadership— leader role, which is so, which is so cool. And someone might— is myself. And we can kind of talk about what these copy— what the Copy Stars mean.

Tori Boats:
And I was just about to tell folks. So, so Marisa created this amazing way of just helping you understand copy yourself, your personality, through one of the coolest things— through acting. And who hasn’t had a little dream in their life of one day I’m going to be an actor? And I gotta tell you, my acting dream is when I’m old— and I used to think when I’m Betty White’s age, I want to be the little grandma on the first— for the first time walking down the red carpet going, I’m a movie star now.

Marisa Corcoran:
I love it.

Tori Boats:
And so, so we have these copy stars, which helps you understand your personality so it can come through in the way that you type or write or put out copy or speak. And, um, I just love it. So yes, so Nerdtastic Leader is— I call it my pocket, um, personality. It might be my actual primary personality. And these are me just bastardizing what Maurice is teaching, um, because I also love to be that cheerleader. And because I’m happy and peppy and positive, but I’m not real ‘Rawr, rawr, go, you got this, you got it’ in my copy or in my business life. I’m just kind of like that naturally. So it’s really interesting to see how it plays out.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, I think all the different elements, you know, it— I was just actually saying this, we were talking about this at our AI Sessions event on— at the time of this recording, this past Friday, where I was talking about as myself, one of the copy stars is called the hooker with a heart of gold. I feel like I’m a hooker with a heart of gold, like, outfit and everything today. Um, I always say like, I don’t want to buy from other hookers with a heart of gold. Like, I haven’t— I have that energy in my life. So I tend to really buy from nerd-tastic leaders. Like, I love when I feel really taken care of by a nerd-tastic leader. Like, I know they know their stuff. I know they’re the smartest person in the room. I know they’re gonna know how to walk me all the way from A to Z. So I really love when people actually start to really embrace who they are, because, you know, something I always talk about, like, people make purchasing decisions based on two things. One is what you’re selling, something that I want or I need, And number 2, are you the person that I want to do it with? Do I get a sense of your voice and your vibe? And so when I see people really step into their copy star or their primary copy star, because we can always borrow from other bits or have— hey, I’m a little bit of nerd-tastic, I got the relentless cheerleader in me, of course, uh, I, I really start to see people shine. So it’s really, it’s really cool. It’s a really— and it’s— and like you said, it’s a really fun way of looking at our business and writing personalities, as opposed to somebody just telling you, oh yeah, just go out there and be yourself. It’s a nice system you can walk yourself through to kind of understand a little bit more about yourself. And I, you know, essentially swipe this from the actor world of the archetypes of, you know, the kind of characters that I used to be called in for when I was, uh, when I was an actor.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, I, I think, you know, if I have to talk to the listener directly, if you haven’t dived into different ways of understanding how you write or how you present or how you talk to people um, in any situation, this is a really fun way to learn copy. And Marisa does it like no one else. Um, I’ve been through a lot of different copy programs or trainings, courses, and it literally is my favorite. I go back to it again and again. Um, and Marisa is in a launch right now. She does a launch. She also has her, um, Copy Chat, which is in— going into its 10th season, and she may retire it, I hear. Um, And then she has the AI sessions. So she’s always like we are here. She’s always reinventing and experimenting and trying new things, um, and also repeating what works. So, um, I want you to tell us a little bit about Copy Confidence Society and your business evolution, where, where you stand today, and just kind of help us understand your business because I really wanna spotlight it for folks to, um, to understand what goes on and, and get their interest up in it.

Marisa Corcoran:
Mm, yeah, thank you, Tori. Thank you. So funny you think I’m, I’m in launch mode because I got, you know, stranded— it’s not really stranded— in Miami. By the time of this recording, there’s like this huge snowstorm happening back up at the Northeast. I know you’re cozy, like, I just— so I found out I had to stay here for an extra 3 days.

Tori Boats:
Oh, boohoo.

Marisa Corcoran:
You know, all good. It’s beautiful weather. It’s great. But I was like, oh yeah, I’m in launch mode. And usually when I’m in launch mode and I have this speaks to what you just asked me. I could— in the past, I’ve been very hunkered down. Like, that’s all I do. I live and breathe my business, which I think is a great quality about myself and the way that I show up for my people and all that. But over the last about year or so, I’ve really tried to incorporate— like, trust that I’ve been, you know, at the time, you know, when this launch is the 16th launch of the Copy Confidence Society. You know, it is proven. We’ve supported over 1,000 business owners. And so in a way, it’s always interesting how God or the universe, whatever you think, like, it’s just interesting that it’s like, okay, yeah, I’m launching here in Miami. I’m not at my normal desk, all that. But there— it is actually really cool to, to, to do that. And it speaks to the evolution that we are in as a community, which is helping people just, you know, I always talk about your business has 3 basic needs. One, you have to sell in a way that feels good. You don’t have buyers, you don’t have a business. Number 2, you have to call in the right people to sell to. We know this is lead generation or audience growth. And number 3, you have to know what to say and how to say it in order to call in the right people to sell to. And that third thing is what I specialize in, is what we do inside of the Copy Confidence Society. We help you uncover what to say and how to say it with that personality-filled copy that dazzles. So if you’re a coach or a service provider, there are these core pieces of copy you need for people to help them make that right purchasing decision to kind of turn those, those kind of, you know, subscribers into soon-to-be customers, all of that good stuff. That’s what we specialize in. But with the rise of AI and everything that’s been happening, we’ve made— we’ve been making some shifts, like you said, kind of staying— making some shifts in the, in the experience and in the program. And where the program used to be, you know, like very robust and all of that, all— I’ve really pared it down. To the absolute, like, essentials that you need to rock it as a coach or service provider. We’ve added in these custom GPTs to help you move it with more efficiency and effectiveness. Um, we’re doing it in— I’m getting back to live teaching. So, you know, if speaking out there, if you’re a listener, I think in your business, I, I really sat with myself over this past year and said, okay, what do I miss? What do I want? And I thought, you know, I haven’t taught the Copy Confidence Society live since 2020. And I was craving, like, I wanted to be— and so lately, like, with AI sessions that you mentioned, we did that live. On Zoom, interviewed live, and I just was, I just was craving, I wanted to be back doing things live. So we’re teaching the Society live. We’re going to kick off when people join us with like a 3-day virtual retreat to move people right through the first things that they need. I’m going to teach every single aspect live. We’re going to have get it done days with my editor, Jen, where you’ll come in and get the copy done. You’ll have editing calls. Like our goal is that you will move through the time. Coming out with those core copy pieces done and dusted so that you can go live your life and do the stuff that you wanna do. And you’re not in a, in the weeds of, of videos and modules and things that there was a place for that, where that worked and it did really well. And I think I, I was sensing that and sensing that from my own life. And so I’m just really excited to support people in this kind of updated version of the society and helping you really uncover who you are with the Copy Stars. Uncover your messaging, how you talk about what you do with clarity, how you write about it, and getting some of those core copy pieces done and dusted, like your website, your welcome sequence, that everyday kind of writing content creation, and walk away having that. And then having those kind of AI tools to keep using that as you keep growing your business.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, I think that, you know, where it was really easy to get stuck in ruminating. Um, over which words do I use, I don’t know how to describe it. I think that’s one of the superpowers of AI is really helping you brainstorm through a couple of those things, or, or even how I use it most is I just brain dump to it. I take an audio note and now you can talk straight to it, but I take an audio note and I let my thoughts just kind of go as I’m walking or driving or commuting. And then I let it sort it out and report back to me, what am I saying again and again? What is the, the gist of it? And then going back in and putting the human back into it, which is how do I, um, make it sound like me or make it conversational? Um, and then I practice with it over and over, like, how do I describe what I do? And I I think that being able to have those pieces that walk you through it when you’re going through curriculum or a process is so powerful because it helps you move faster with more confidence because you have immediate feedback and it knows the process that you put in. It knows the hard work that you’ve created, the frameworks you’ve created into it as a tool for someone versus let’s just go to Claude or ChatGPT or Perplexity or whatever and start having a conversation. It does not have the same framework that someone like you, a professional teaching a specific thing, has. And I— it’s just so beautiful to have those two things coming together now.

Marisa Corcoran:
Mm, it’s so true, Tori, exactly what you’re saying. Because at the same time that I wanted people to move through more efficiently and more effectively, what I was seeing is when people were bringing stuff that they were using from AI, I thought to myself, my gosh, this sounds like everyone else. And, and, and I think, you know, Tori, something that we’re kind of, you know, known for— whatever this means, I’m not like a celebrity or anything— but like something that we’re known— although, you know, I’d like to be, the Leo in me, of course— but, um, something that I think we get rave reviews about is that people feel like we’ve created this sense of real intimacy inside of the society, even when there is maybe a more medium-sized or, or bigger group. We’ve Like I’ve really made it kind of made it my goal. I first heard my friend Clint Salter talk about this one time at a, at a conference a few years ago about scaling intimacy. And that has really been my word. Yeah. And then it’s been a mission of mine is how do I scale intimacy? And I think we do a really good job of it. And I say this to say that I know people really well is basically what I’m trying to say. So when they would bring me stuff, I’d be like, I know this isn’t you. I know this isn’t your copy style. I know this isn’t— and so while I understood, I want to get through stuff, I’m going, This isn’t good though. This isn’t gonna convert. And so I said, okay, how can we bring, like you said, the proven frameworks that I’ve, you know, been doing since 2013, the tried and true kind of proven frameworks, things that have evolved over the years, and combine this with this in a bit as that idea popcorn, that thought partnership without taking away the creativity. Because something that I really think about as copy, and I will die on this, is even before I get into marketing with people, I really think of copy as like, it is an— it’s an art. It is this beautiful creative art form. And I wanna go for quality with people. I wanna help you create a website, website copy that is gonna live on for you. That has some of the longest shelf life if you, if you get it right, if you hit it and you can make some tweaks to it, of course. And that’s what I’m— I want you to come in and get it done and not, and, and then go off and coach and do the things that you’re, that you’re great at. And so I was like, okay, how can we bring what I know is proven to something that can help people get a, through a little bit faster. And then when they leave the program, they can, they can come— I kind of call her the MBot— they can come to the MBot and they can ask the MBot and all that. So it’s been, it’s been a journey and we still continue the journey, right? Especially with this. This is why I wanted to go back to teaching live and just making sure as updates and things are changing that I was on the pulse of it and doing things in real time with, with people. Yeah.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. It makes a huge difference. Um, So as we were talking about kind of the growth and the scale, um, now I’m gonna switch this over a little bit. So, um, we looked at discussing— this is, uh, I’m switching modes and experimenting too with the technology piece. And I’ve been doing advisory sessions on the scalability of a business and how do you go through those growth levers? How do you keep the founder front and center as a, a lean— I call it lean founder-first scaling, um, which to some may feel like they’re going backwards because maybe they’re not going to hire and grow to 75 people. Maybe they want to stay small and lean. They may look at, do I really need that much revenue, or do I want to maximize my profitability and my time? That lifestyle piece comes into it. But from the standpoint of what feels good in your business, and you mentioned early going back and what are you craving in your business, what are you wanting and missing in your business, and I think that’s such a key question to ask. Um, and then as we move forward, one of the, one of the growth levers is systems and technology. So this style of episode is let’s look at Does AI and automation make sense for some of the recent bottlenecks that you’re having as you grow and scale? And keep in mind that grow and scale doesn’t always mean grow bigger, grow for the sake of growth. Um, I got stuck in the trap of— I grow— I had my first tech business and we grew to about 75 people before I cashed out of that business. Because I was constantly chasing growth and constantly feeling unhappy to the point of really dark places of unhappiness, that pit of despair that I just couldn’t get out of. And I know a lot of folks get confused. They’re like, why did you leave multimillion-dollar business in something that you already had established to do, to do something else? And it’s funny, I started another tech business thinking that that was the answer., and I, I had to exit out of that business as well because I’m like, this, this isn’t it. And so it’s funny to kind of come back to technology again, but in a very different way, more in a coaching guidance. And what can I build? Like, can I— I’m, I’m almost getting back to my tech roots and doing some of that work, doing some of that exploration. And, and that’s what brings us here to this kind of episode. So I’m gonna tell the listener, um, I asked Marisa to let us know what are 1 to 3 bottlenecks that she’s currently facing and navigating in her business, and we can talk about them.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, this is so fun. Awesome.

Tori Boats:
I’m, I’m so excited. So, yeah. Okay. So Marisa let me know what are the 3 bottlenecks that she’s really looking at in her business as she grows and goes forward. And that’s the point where we’re gonna do some thought partnership around and see how we can explore if AI and automation is a solution or if there’s some other growth lever that may apply. That way, audience, you get to be that rare fly on the wall to really understand how do decisions get made in the back end of a business, especially when they’re in that growth and scale mode. And you get to see not just in general, but Marisa really go through this with me as we talk at this level on what are the things that she’s finding she’s getting stuck in, in her business. Um, and not stuck as in there’s something wrong, but how does she make it more— I say sustainable scaling, but how can it be smoother? So the 3 things that Marisa gave us are me checking everything off. I mean, who doesn’t feel like they want to go back and make sure everything’s in place? I think that’s a very common area. There’s a lot of copy to always be written. I mean, hello, she’s a copywriter. Beautiful. And then the Ask Me thread, which is this other piece in her business. So Marisa, if we were to kind of start off with what do you want to talk about today, which one of those feels like it’s the one

Marisa Corcoran:
you want to discuss? Yeah, I think the Ask Me thread, and that’s because, yeah, it’s something that’s worked for us for so long. But I think in where we’re, you know, we were talking earlier about like where we’re taking the society. I’m trying to figure out where that

Tori Boats:
fits in now, especially since you’re doing live— exactly— or live portions. Okay, so why don’t you start by telling us what is the Ask Me thread?

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, so the Ask Me thread is this thing that we’ve had throughout my programs basically from the very beginning, which is we, we truly are a global community. We have people from all over the world, so not everybody can make every call, nor do I want everybody to feel like they have to be at every call in order to you know, get the most out of the experience. And I know there’s different learning styles, right? There’s people who like never go to the calls and like, just give me the material, or they come to the teaching stuff, you know, you know, we all have different learning styles. And I try to make sure that those are all included. We also have a lot of people with parent, you know, who, who are parents or taking care of their own parents, or life is coming to life. So I wanted to make sure that they still felt that they could get questions answered no matter kind of where they fell into. So what we’ve had for the longest time is on Mondays, this thing will appear in our Facebook group. Called the Ask Me Thread. And you can ask me your kind of like top 2 questions, you know, like, hey, you know, Marisa, it’s Tori here. I’m in my— you know, here’s what’s going well. I always ask people, okay, what’s going well? What do you want to celebrate? And then, okay, Marisa, I’m working on my copy stars and I’m feeling this. Could you help me figure out this? So you can ask me kind of 2 specific questions about what you’re working on. And then on Tuesdays, I come in and I answer. But I still end up basically, which is not bad. I’ve, I’ve loved doing it for years, as you know, Tori, for years. And I’ll answer people all the way and I don’t close those loops till the end of the week. But a lot of that is relying on— I might say to you, Tori, because I am somebody who likes to get to the kernel of it, I’ll say, hey, Tori, let me ask you a question. Now we’re going back and forth and I always make sure we get to the— we close the loop or I say, hey, Tori, let’s talk about this on the next call. Can, can you bring this? And I write a note making sure that we save a spot for you to ask a question. And again, it has worked really well, but where we’re taking things, I’m trying to figure out where— what we could do with that. And even if we were leaving everything the same, I still feel like there’s a way that sometimes, oh, I want to ask this, then you want to ask me, and then you ask this, and then next you know it is Friday, and Friday, and I, and I want people to feel like they they got, okay, move on to the next thing. I’m trying to get everybody to like just move forward. And I feel like just as we’ve transitioned or changed stuff, I feel like this has to change in some way, and I’m trying to figure out what that

Tori Boats:
is. The things that are coming to mind are your time, open threads, and the mbot. And the, the— what I mean by open threads I have, I have ADHD and it really messes with me. So if I have a ball that’s— or something that is still in the air, I’m constantly trying to not let it fall and panicking over it. And this is done in Facebook, right?

Marisa Corcoran:
Mm-hmm.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. So it’s not easy. I don’t know if you have a system, but it, it can be difficult to keep track of where do I still have an open thread? Um, and then your time, like, you’re spending time going in all through the week, and I don’t know how you feel about, about your time efficiency-wise or the amount of time you spend in that way, if that’s serving you on how you want to spend that time. And then I forgot what the third one was because I started talking, but

Marisa Corcoran:
no, I think what you just said is, is absolutely true. I think how I know it’s been my own brain I’m somebody who, like, I will be on morning walk and I go, oh, I gotta follow up with Tori in the ask me thread, you know. And I’m pretty good at doing that, and I have a system. Like, I go in, I go to the ask me thread always on a Thursday, no matter what, even if I know I finished it all. Go to all comments and I just make sure that they’re all there. And then if it’s all answered, I say, okay, this thread has been closed, we, we’ve answered them all, all of it. So I’ve had the system, and again, that system has worked well. But yeah, if we are going to go back to where I’m teaching more live and we’re doing more of these events for people, like AI sessions and all these things, it’s just, oh gosh, the ask me thread goes up and I want— I don’t want to take away from the quality of those answers or the quality of the time that I’ve given or getting people their, their questions answered. It just, I don’t know if it fits anymore for where, where we’re going, but I’d still like to have a resource like that for people in some way.

Tori Boats:
You mentioned earlier your Get It Done, and I know Get It Done is focused on a specific done and dusted piece like your sales page. Um, and folks, if you want in, the sales page is coming up, so get into CCS. Um, then you have the editing calls. Are you finding— so where I’m going is Do we, do we close this particular type of access at this point and switch into something else, or do you already have something else that can kind of take the place? I wonder the kinds of questions that you’re getting. Is it something that can wait for one of the get it dones? Is it something that can move into the ask me’s, or do you set up a call again? Like, I don’t know how you feel about coming on the a call that’s just the kind of question like a Q&A. Um, and are you finding— I think this is the most important question here— is in the Ask Me thread, is there anything people are coming in there for because it’s urgent and can’t wait until the next call or other type of interaction that they have?

Marisa Corcoran:
Usually no, unless maybe they’re in a launch, you know, And they’ve needed— a couple Ask Me threads ago, we had one of our peeps that was in a launch and, you know, needed some support and they were closing the doors, you know, but usually no. Usually it’s like, okay, I’m working on my messaging and here’s what I’m thinking about and how does this feel? You know? And so I’m able to cover a lot and support a lot of people, but I agree with you. Part of me, so the, I, I go in like two directions. Part of me goes like what you’re saying. Okay, well, we’re gonna have all these other live calls. Like for example, we’re gonna kick off with 3 days together. Like a 3-day virtual retreat. I mean, at the investment— we’re giving a lot, which I’m so excited about, and not an overwhelming way, in a way that it’s— I, I’ve thought about this for a long time about moving people through in those 3 days. So I— part of me feels like so many of those questions that maybe have been in the ask me thread for so long will have less because of the virtual— of the retreat and the way that we’re doing things and the get it done like you said. But I’m also wondering if there’s a, a way of the— that the mbah or something there that I might be missing a bit too.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, what I’m thinking first, you mentioned most of the questions you get in there are the messaging, probably those first 3 modules, like finding their voice, how to say what they’re saying, or their message, that core message. Um, I wonder, is there a world where you shut that down and it becomes that those questions are getting answered in the kickoff? So they have to come to those kickoffs and those calls are pointed on the core pieces of copy. So you’re kind of answering most of those questions. You do a launch model. So you’re probably gonna do some kind of kickoff type of event.

Marisa Corcoran:
Regularly.

Tori Boats:
Um, you also have the editing calls. They can always pop into an editing call with their messaging. It doesn’t have to be, here’s a complete email that I’ve created. Let’s do the email. It can be, yes, I can’t figure out my message for 5 minutes or whatever, however long, maybe 15. Then you’ve got this mbot. I mean, if it’s a coach, is it— if it’s trained on your material and your, um, coaching calls, kind of the brain, then it’s going to be able to respond, not replace you, but they’re going to be able to use the ChatGPT or the, the custom GPTs that you have in the course material that’s zeroed in on messaging or whatever place they happen to be in the curriculum. And you’re going to have the overall coaching bot on not only where do I find this lesson, but What has Marisa said on this before?

Marisa Corcoran:
Um, plus I think that’s it. I think that’s it, Tori. I think that’s it. I think we have the GPTs for the specific things, for Copy Star, for approach unpack, which, you know, is our messaging, words of the ideal client. We have it for your content motifs. Like, we have it for the core, the stuff. I think it’s, it’s strengthening or looking at the And the, you know, the, the, the, the M coaching— I think we have the M copybots. Those are great, right? The M coaching one, I hear what you’re saying, and I think maybe I hadn’t worked on that one as much because I had the— we’ve been kind of rolling these out. I knew we were changing course, but I’ve kind of been rolling it out with everybody to see. But that one is kind of the last one I’ve looked at because I’m like, well, we have the, you know, we have the Ask Me thread.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. And the beauty of a coach bot, if folks— if you haven’t heard of it before, it really is a bot that you train on the back end that has access to the transcripts of all your calls. If you, if you, if you decide to train it in that, your coaching calls, as you go, the live editing calls, all of that gets pulled in and, and categorized and made into this really rich source of information. So instead of generic ChatGPT or Claude using a training from the world. It’s your own little world of your stuff and your brain and things that you’ve said. And the beauty of it is, as you continue to have your live stuff, your live teachings, your 3-day kickoff and your revival, the business revival, um, and all of the Get It Dones and the special pieces, you’re going to be constantly coaching. So it’s always going to be updated with not only your data, but also how have you helped and solved and gone through so that those kind of become processes that the bot will learn to help people go through. And that way, when they come to a call, they haven’t had zero interaction. They’ve had interaction in the meantime. That’s their— in the meantime, and they’re coming to a call prepared. They may not even need it. They may be like, oh, this sounds good, I’m good. Plus you have the community and the community aspect of it. You know, Lawrence and I have been in there forever and we help each other and tell each other, oh, I like that, or this doesn’t make sense. So you have that depth. The thing— the first thing you mentioned is depth with your team, uh, going, going above and beyond for the people, not only for your team, but also for all of your students. And your lifers, those people that have been with you forever, they’re going to continue to support the folks because of the way you inspire them to do so. And you ask them, please, everybody share. And I, I don’t think that’s going away.

Marisa Corcoran:
No, that’s, that’s our, that’s our strongest— you know, you’ve always heard me joke about this story. I’m always like, I will, I’ll get in the ring, you know, with anybody who claims to have a tighter-knit community than what we’ve created. I think it’s one of our strongest pieces And it really is great because there are people who’ve gone through this in their copy. They— it’s so great to watch people like you all give feedback because it’s so great. I’m like, I don’t need to step in here, this is it, because you’ve been doing it or you’ve seen it. And so, uh, yeah, I think the community piece and then strengthening the, like, M— you know, like I said, the M copy is good, but I think taking some time to strengthen a bit more the M coaching one And then kind of sunsetting the ask me thread as we know it. And again, just as we’re moving things, I actually think, you know, likely done well could probably be even more powerful for people, honestly.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. And I wanna go back to the Leo. So Marisa talks about being a Leo in the spotlight all the time. And it’s funny cuz I think Leo is my moon sign.

Marisa Corcoran:
Ah, Leo’s my moon too. So I’m a Leo sun. A Leo moon. What? And thank God, thank God I’m a Libra rising, otherwise I would just be— yeah, just taking selfies of myself all day.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, I’m a Cancer Leo sun rising,

Marisa Corcoran:
a Scorpio rising, rising Cancer sun, right?

Tori Boats:
Cancer sun. Yeah, yeah.

Marisa Corcoran:
So this makes so much sense for you.

Tori Boats:
Alphabet soup. I don’t know what all that means

Marisa Corcoran:
for me, but yeah, I do, but if you don’t want to ask me— but yes, I love it. So anyways, yes, I talk a lot about being a Leo. And then by the way Then I go in Venus, which is like your love sign. I go back to Leo. My Venus is also in Leo. Wow.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, it’s, it’s a lot, right? I wrote love sign down because I’m like, I don’t know what my— what your Venus is.

Marisa Corcoran:
Cool. Yeah, what your Venus

Tori Boats:
is. I have to find it out. Um, and the celebrity aspect, what you have done the best I’ve ever seen is introducing your people, your community, your students to other experts and allowing— giving props to that expert for really being an expert. And that transition, I, I think you’ve done it with two people. I, I— all I can think about right now is Jen, but um, making that transition seamless. It’s because you’ve integrated yourself with them at the same time, um, and then you’ve handed the reins over, but you’ve, you’ve been there as that touting them, um, when you borrow from other people’s relationships. I can’t think of the word, but you’re basically showing trust in this person by bringing them in and seamlessly weaving them through to allow them to have the reins by proving— let’s look at what she can do. I’m going to prove to you, um, that she’s got you. And I think that’s really powerful because the ask me thread is you and access to you, and you don’t want people to think they have no access to you anymore. That goes against that above and beyond, that depth that you really create, and really knowing the people How do you feel about not being on the ask me thread and still feeling like you’re able to know the people so that you can still give them that enriched experience?

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, it’s such a good question, something that I’ve thought about. And I think where it comes from is a couple of the things. Number one, which is we are, you know, a lot of this is live. So when I’m, when I’m, you know, going back to teaching where we had the modules, like, I’m going to be teaching the website stuff live. I’m going to be teaching the welcome sequence live, so that’s me. Um, Q&A, that’s me. Uh, so I feel like there’s even in some ways even more— totally— access than there’s been. And I— that has never been an issue in our community. I really appreciate you saying that, Tori. It really means so much to me. Thank you. Um, that has never been an issue in our community. People, I think, are always pleasantly surprised when they come in. They’re like, oh ‘Wow, you’re really here.’ And I’m like, ‘Yeah, what am I also gonna do? I’m not like—’ I know, I like working. I’m like that. I’m always like, ‘I like being here,’ you know.

Tori Boats:
Of course I’m here.

Marisa Corcoran:
So, and yeah, and then the people— you know what’s so funny, speaking of being a Leo, which is so funny, is a lot of times people will talk about like Leos as, you know, it’s always a spotlight on me, on me, on me. But actually, if you read a lot about Leos, Leos, one of their best qualities is, is, is spotlighting the people that they also— like, if a Leo loves you and believes in your talent, a Leo is your like your agent. That’s— and that’s so interesting. I have, uh, an eye for talent. Like, I think I could have been a talent agent. Like, I have an eye for talent. I do. So when I see people, I go, that person’s good.

Tori Boats:
Yeah.

Marisa Corcoran:
And I want to know them and I want to support them. And we’ve seen that. We’ve seen that with Jen, we’ve seen that with Brenna, we’ve seen that with people who have come in and are— they’re superstars. And so I love that because I’ve also, at the same time, I know, again, being a Leo, people think, oh, it’s like the you show. No, I have never wanted that because in the online space, at least as we’ve seen, there’s a lot of like a guru culture that I actually never have ever wanted to be, ever. I’ve always wanted it to feel that community part. I always say to run a business, you don’t— you’re not born knowing how to do it. It’s not even self-made, it’s community-made. And what I wanted to do was create a community where I was that leader of that community that’s, you know, shining that light. So I think there’s still a ton of access to me. Yeah. And what you’ve highlighted too, Tori, is also trusting. And you— and I say this, like, the people, like, they’re really good at what they do, trusting that they’re really good at what they do. And so, and the other thing about this too, Tori, is something else about the Ask Me thread that I started to notice. And I think that, um, maybe in the M coaching, but it’ll be a little bit more helpful in this way, is that what I start to notice sometimes about the Ask Me thread is people, you know, maybe they’re looking for my approval. And I want to come back and make sure people know, hey, listen, your business is always— like, you’re always evolving, you’re always changing, always growing. So like, how can I help you trust you? So a lot of times my response is in the ask me thread, I’ll go back and I’ll say, hey, this isn’t the sexiest, but tell me more about what you think about this. Yeah. So also finding ways to make sure that people are trusting themselves more. As

Tori Boats:
well. Yeah, I think, I think that’s a hard one. Um, yeah, so I’m putting my client hat on. So as someone who goes through with an expert and hires an expert to help me with something, there’s a difference in I want to hire you to create my copy for me and I’m writing my copy, hey, do you think it sounds like it’s gonna sell, like someone’s gonna click the link or click the button in buy or sign up or whatever the, the, whatever the thing you’re, you’re offering to folks. Does it sound like something they need? Am I positioning it correctly? And I think there’s a, I think there’s a place for that kind of, of, um, it’s not approval but the feedback. Oh, for sure. And then the approval piece, which For me, I love external validation, and if I have a coach, like a life coach or a business coach, I’m always seeking external validation and learning to trust myself. And for me, this is my personal experience, they have to kick me out of the nest and say, boink, you’re gonna have to try it and fail and try it and not fail and try it and see that you didn’t fail and and just put it out there. And I wonder how can— I think that part of the M coaching bot and even the copy bots is those guardrails, which is kick the bird out of the nest guardrails. Don’t ask, you’re not allowed to ask 8 times. You can, you have to stop iterating and then the bot will say, we’re done iterating. Here’s the top 3. I’m ranking them for you. Here’s your top 3. I’m smart because I’m a damn bot. And go. That right there, when I ask— so I ask my prompts all the time, okay, stop, give me your recommendation, tell me why you’re recommending it that way. And because I just need to go and do actual work, um, so we can get in that loop, whether it’s human loop with you or a loop with some other technology, I think those guardrails might be that piece that helps move people along where they get their external validation, which for me feels like approval, but they also get, hey, if this is a real approval kind of thing, like a, a second set of eyes that’s knowledgeable about conversion copywriting or relationship or personality that dazzles, like That’s Maurice’s words, personality that dazzles. Is that in my copy? That’s your editing calls to say, I need this to be judged up, where I need that kind of validation on this particular piece of copy. How does that land?

Marisa Corcoran:
Oh yeah, no, I, I couldn’t agree more, Tori. I, I love that. I love that differentiation too, is that the, you know, that external validation. And it’s also important. I want people to feel, feel that, but then like, okay, we have that, so now like I think what you said is, is ultimately what I’m always getting at is like, okay, what are we gonna put in place for you to know? I often ask this question in the ask me time. I’ll say, so what are we gonna put in place for you to know that this is working when you put it out there? What are we gonna be looking for? What are we gonna be— oh, we’re getting more responses to the email. Okay, great. Like, or, you know what I mean? Like helping people come up with

Tori Boats:
their,

Marisa Corcoran:
um, you know, kind of, uh, what’s the word I’m looking for? That’s not parameters, but they’re, um, like a metric. Thank you. That’s what their metrics, their measure— their measurements, you know. Um, and so yeah, I think that there’s likely a mixture of that. And then also like, okay, so kicking them out, like, okay, go do it, and then, you know, feel free to bring it back. Or like you’re saying, bring it to an editing call and Jen will be brilliant and you’ll love it. Or, you know, bring it, you know. And so all of those, yeah, I think that there’s room to make sure that each of those elements is, is included in

Tori Boats:
there. Okay, so what we’ve talked about— I’m just going to pull the button on it— is, is AI and automation a potential fix for this particular bottleneck? And what I find interesting is there is not an additional AI or an additional automation that you have to put in place. You’re taking the steps to do that and to build it. We’ve just fleshed it out to handle this particular bottleneck, which is What do I do about this Ask Me thread? Do I sunset it? Do I keep it? So what we’ve done is really pulled the— back the covers on what are you actually doing in the thread? What are the common questions? Why are they using it? That approval piece, the feedback piece, and what are you really doing at the end to close those out? And it’s by asking people what they’re gonna do to know if it’s working or not. It’s to give themselves that validation. So we’ve just sussed out some additional guardrails that you can put in the AI you’re already

Marisa Corcoran:
building.

Tori Boats:
That’s cool.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. Because you’re already on that path. Um, now it’s just the decision.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, it’s so true. And the messaging, you know, the biggest things that I’m running through— I love that you said that, like, what are the main things that people are asking me about in there? So, I mean, my gosh, how many Ask Me threads do we have to go back to look at?

Tori Boats:
I know, right? Well, no, no, no, no, I’m not allowed to do that.

Marisa Corcoran:
No, I’m not. But you know what I mean? Like, there’s so many. Like, we’ve been doing this for so many years, but like, I also know in my gut what they are because I’ve been answering them for so many years. I know what— I know what it’s about.

Tori Boats:
So yeah, yeah, you’re not allowed to pick more than 50.

Marisa Corcoran:
I also think you know me, like, the hooker with a hard wall. Like, I wouldn’t— I’m like Where do I even go find the old ask me that? You know what I mean? Someone’s constantly guiding me to the computer, like, press this button, turn this on, you know? Yes.

Tori Boats:
So I am very detailed. So I, I would be the person that goes back through 570,000 messages and pulls the thread and says, oh, here. Yeah.

Marisa Corcoran:
So yeah, no, we don’t need that.

Tori Boats:
You have it off the top of your head. You can voice it. I have this little automation that I built. Um, for fun, which I know sounds really weird, but it was a weekend. I was having fun and I wanted to be able to capture my ideas because I, I commute a lot. I’m always on the go driving my kids around or commuting here and there depending on where I’m going. And I wanted to capture my ideas, but I put them all over the place. They’re in notes, they’re in my Keep— Google Keep. They’re an email to myself. They’re— sometimes they’re in a different notes app and I forgot where. Um, I’ve used to use Evernote, like they’re all over the place. So I built this little bot. I go into Telegram, which is free. I send myself a voice message and behind the scenes magic, I don’t have to click a button or do anything. It sucks itself into my Airtable, which is a database, a free database program, and all my ideas are there. Verbatim, and I made it smart. So it also categorizes it, tells me what kind of idea it is, it puts the idea bank label on it, and it tells me, um, if it would be good for content and what kind of content. Should it be an email or a carousel, or is it better as a quote prompt? Because it can be a short note or a really long— I’m talking for 20 minutes on a drive, my brain is going crazy— kind of note. It can also split it out, be like, I think this is 3 ideas. And then it gives me a hook. Okay, y’all, I gotta tell you, Marisa just did this amazing thing with her subject lines, her 50 subject lines. Tell us what you just did with them.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, so the 50+ scroll-stopping subject lines has been like our free gift for forever. And it’s so funny because I was at a conference— this is a true story— like a couple years ago, and 3 people came up to me on like the first day. I just want to let you know, like, I use the subject lines free gift like all the time. It’s like the only free gift I ever use. I was like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. The next person— by the third person, I was like, am I being punk? Like, is someone trying to test me or something? Anyways, people use it and they love it and I love it. Anyways, I decided to be like, okay, what would happen if I took these and I kind of ran my 3 formulas through AI and I gave it a couple prompts and it is phenomenal. So like I took my one, it’s called the Cosmo concept where I’ve like swiped these things from the COVID of Cosmo and how you can turn them into subject lines that are really highly compelling that people will open. And so I, I, I ran it through AI of like, okay, give me a subject line capsule, basically cosmo concept based on this is my niche. Like, this is what I do. And then I did it if it had a specific email I was writing. And so I basically went through the formulas like that for people. So now it’s the 50+ scroll-stopping subject lines, like with this AI helper, and I give you it all to run through and do. And it was really cool to see. I’ve already gotten some really great res— because I just premiered it last week and I’ve already gotten some really great responses from people that are like, oh my God, I did it. And this is so great.

Tori Boats:
So.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, it’s really cool.

Tori Boats:
Yep. So where was I even going with that?

Marisa Corcoran:
I think you were talking about your— like, it, it’ll even give you a hook, you were saying.

Tori Boats:
Oh yes, I was— I forgot I was talking about me. I’m like, where was I going? Why did I tell Marisa?

Marisa Corcoran:
And then you were thinking the hook because we were talking about subject lines, and I— it’s like, I was like, I understand this.

Tori Boats:
Um, and it gives you a hook using Marisa’s formulas. Yep. Because I— why not? Like, I love them. So I trained it on how to do it.

Marisa Corcoran:
And, and I realized we have all this— like, I have this, Tori, I just realized, for the gimme gimme titles, which I know you about, like gimme gimme titles, by the way, for the Copy Confidence cheat sheet, which is those 52, like, right, that’s all about formatting and bold. Like, I mean, that’s a ton of stuff in the Copy Confidence cheat sheet that I worked for years to put that together based on people I’d interviewed on the copy chat and all of that. Um, the Headline Helper, like all of that. Yeah.

Tori Boats:
Yeah. They’re tools. They’re all little tools, tools that you own, tools that you can pop in here for, for your, for your community really. And I love that you’re doing it slowly. So hey, audience, listen up. If you’re getting overwhelmed with, oh my God, there’s a lot of ideas. There’s so many things I could do. Is it a workflow? Is it an AI? I have to do it all at once. You don’t. You don’t have to do it all at once. You’re not late. You can roll out one tiny little thing. It could be for yourself, like my idea bank, voice to content bank. I just did that for myself because it— I needed it and it was fun. Um, you don’t have to geek out like that. You can have other people geek out for you. The, the main takeaway from that is just breathe, pick one thing, play with it. See if you want to use it for yourself, or pick something that is client-facing and say, I wonder if— one of the key things Marisa just said is, well, I wonder what it would be like if— allow yourself to just kind of play with that. And it could be— the, the beauty of it, Marisa, is that 50 scroll-stopping subject lines— did I get that right? You got it, you did it. That is a freebie that Marisa’s given away to get just as lead gen to help people understand who she is and how she teaches for eons, revamped. So is there something in your business that you can revamp that’s really bite-sized? You know, that’s a great way to start playing with the idea of scaling with technology without it being really

Marisa Corcoran:
scary. Yeah, agreed, agreed. When I was thinking about it, I thought, gosh, I don’t have to create something new. Also, you know what’s so funny is I’ve been really getting into like my human design, and we have one of our epic people in our program, um, the great Brianna Owen, who really talks about like human design and email. And so she was so generous and gave me a session, and something she was telling me about my human design is she was like, you know, Marisa— and I can’t remember what she was pointing to exactly, but it was like, you know, you never really need to like start from scratch because you— and I can’t even remember where she said this, but I thought about that when I was sitting down to, to think about what I would teach for AI, because I did something different for season 1. And I was like, wait a second, yeah, I don’t think— I was like, I could just do the 50+ girl stopping subject lines, right? So thinking about what Brianna said too, and I don’t think you need it in your human design, by the way, to know that you don’t— what you said is so true, Troy.

Tori Boats:
Manifesting generator.

Marisa Corcoran:
You don’t need— same, I’m also a manifesting generator. And I think this is it, Tori, because when we’re manifesting generators, I’m like, oh, I should create this, and I I should create this, and I should create this, and I should create this. And I love creating. So it was interesting to have Brianna kind of tell me that, because then I was like, wait a second, I could just revamp the 50+ and I’m— people are loving, and I had so much fun doing it. I love it. Yeah, I had the best time doing it. I was like, this is so fun.

Tori Boats:
So yeah. Yep. I think one of— so little, little story for, for listeners. One of the first things I AI’d for myself Who— was Beetlejuice your brand?

Marisa Corcoran:
Oh, you did?

Tori Boats:
Oh yeah. So I emailed you and you, you responded. Marisa responds to her emails, guys. I’m like, oh my God, I just did this with ChatGPT.

Marisa Corcoran:
Oh, I think I remember this.

Tori Boats:
I Beetlejuiced my brand. I had it understand the poster and it was so fun and I got such great magical answers out of it that I was able to use in my email.

Marisa Corcoran:
That’s right. You gave it The Beetlejuice— we can’t say it 3 times, but you know what I mean. Yeah, we can’t, you know, but the call— because if you say his name 3 times, he could appear. And if you say call Beetlejuice 3 times, you gave them that— you gave it that poster. I did. That I have in the email.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, cool. I’m like, take this poster, take these 3 ideas, and then interview me to make this thing happen. Um, and it, it was so much fun and magical.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, I always say Beetlejuice is the greatest undead Um, so fun copywriter to learn from. Yeah, it’s a great marketer.

Tori Boats:
Okay, Marisa, if you were to say what is the biggest takeaway that you have from this particular conversation, what would that be?

Marisa Corcoran:
I think it’s the permission to sunset the ask me thread and the idea of like, oh, we, we likely have this already if we just kind of tune into that a bit more, and it will likely— I mean, we’ll find out, right? That it will be, you know, even more helpful for people and likely more effe— for everybody involved. And I think that’s going to then open up space for me because I think you know this about me too, Tori, sometimes I like pop into the group and I just like do a live. And I’m like, oh, and I think that will free me up to even do those fun things more because I’m not like in the weeds of the ask me thread.

Tori Boats:
The fun of it is really the key word, is it will feel more fun.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, and I love popping in and telling people too what I’m learning or what I’m doing, but sometimes I get the end of a day of doing the ask me thread and I’m like, oh gosh, I’ll, I’ll tell them that, that takeaway tomorrow, you know what I mean? And I want to get back— I was thinking as I’ve been going through this whole year, this past year, I was like, oh no, no, I want to get back to doing those kinds of things that I loved, um you know, loved doing as much. So I think that is a— I mean, many takeaways, but that’s a— I mean, not only a takeaway, like one we’re actually going to be doing. I know sometimes you come on things, you’re like, oh, I’ll think about this. It’s like, no, we’re going to be doing it. So you want to come along for the ride, you can come in our community and find out. Tell me what you think.

Tori Boats:
Yeah, I like that it doesn’t have your brain constantly worrying about open loops, dropping balls, or leaving someone hanging.

Marisa Corcoran:
Which is the— okay, I was gonna, I was gonna swear, which is the stuff that keeps me— I’m not kidding you, I feel like, may she rest in peace, the great Catherine O’Hara, may she rest— what a legend, how lucky we were to live in the time. But that Kevin, I often have that feeling about like nearly everyone in the copy company. People that the team will ask me, they’ll say, oh, so-and-so, and they’re like, oh yeah, I’m not— and I go, and I’ll say the last name, and they’re like, how do you literally know every everyone in the society.

Tori Boats:
Yes.

Marisa Corcoran:
Like, they’ll say Cindy, and I’m like, which one? Cindy this or something? They’re like, how do you— and I’m like, Cindy with a Y or Cindy with an I? Sometimes they can’t think of it fast enough, and I’m like, in my body, like, how? And then I’m like, oh, wait a second, they don’t have the brain that I— so I’ll be in the middle of the night and I’m like, oh my God, Tori in the ask me thread. Like, so I think this will free me up to do that.

Tori Boats:
You won’t have that panic, that panic anymore.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah.

Tori Boats:
For folks that are— for like entrepreneurs that are wondering, I’m always on, I’m always on, I’m always on, I don’t have a rest time. And there’s that addiction of, well, I don’t really want to rest time. I mean, like, why am I creating an automation on my weekends? It was fun, but still I was working. Um, it’s— can you— it’s not just about giving yourself permission to relax and let yourself go and, and recuperate and re-energize. It’s making sure that you feel comfortable and confident doing so, because there’s something that has to replace that energy, and it can be something that feels more fulfilling and fun and less stressful. And I’m not saying that you were overwhelmed with stress, but it’s that little nagging feeling of forgetting something, like, oh my God, I forgot, uh, that— yeah, go away.

Marisa Corcoran:
Yeah, and even when I think about rest too, I’ve been thinking about this story. It’s like, even like the chance— like, it’s not even like— how do I say this? It’s not even like sleeping. Of course I want to, you know, who doesn’t want to sleep more? Um, but it’s like that time for— I think I’m in my best when I have the space to be creative. Those are my best emails, those are my best things, those are my best— yeah. Um, space. Yeah, so being that person where the depth— to go back to the beginning, what we were saying, like, that’s what I’ve been on this quest of this year is, is, is finding a kind of magic between the

Tori Boats:
two.

Marisa Corcoran:
Uh, yeah, so yeah, it’s— that’s— we’re doing it, we’re making it happen.

Tori Boats:
Yes. All right, so I want to share a link with everyone if you’re interested in Copy Confidence Society. Getting into Marisa’s world at all, you can go to toriboats.com/ccs. CCS stands for Copy Confidence Society. It’ll take you right to Marisa’s links, and it’ll link to the copy camp,

Marisa Corcoran:
which she has coming up next week. Next week at the time of this recording.

Tori Boats:
Next week, right? Oh yes, I always forget about that.

Marisa Corcoran:
I forget about you. I talk like it’s just whatever, and then I go back and listen to stuff and I’m like, what am I saying? Yeah.

Tori Boats:
The Leave ‘Em Wanting More Masterclass. Mm-hmm. Guys, it’s phenomenal. It’s so much fun. So that also leads in. And then when those launches are done, the Copy Confidence Society itself, you can go— you’ll go straight to that page. So don’t worry, you’ll always be in on the latest things happening with that link. Marisa, is there anything else you wanted to share about how people can get in touch with you and see more?

Marisa Corcoran:
No, I think you covered it. I think Copy Camp is something brand new that we’re doing, which I’m really excited about. Cause I thought, if we’re updating how we are delivering to society, I wanted to make sure that the selling of it matches that. Yeah, because I think often, like, I don’t know if any— if you’re out there and you’re listening, very often the, like, dazzling of the marketing doesn’t always match the dazzling of the deliverability. And that’s a whole other episode we could go into why that is. And no one’s— no one’s to blame. There’s lots of— there. But I wanted to make sure that if I’m like, hey, we’re teaching this live and we’re doing this, this, this, and this, The Leave a Little More Masterclass gives you a taste of that, and I’m— I love it. I stand by it. I’ve been doing it forever. But I felt like I wanted something to kind of come before that because, you know, um, so the one of our alum from our community, again, spotting the— I mean, she’s just so talented, the great Sherri Mois, who does astrology and business strategy, um, just, just no one better. And, um, she was recently on Emily Reagan’s podcast talking about instead of looking at it as like a trust recession how she’s viewing it. And I just loved this so much. I always love to listen to you all when you’re in your worlds and like, I’m like, ooh, an alumni said this, I gotta go listen to it. She talked about, it’s like, it’s a discernment era. People are more discerning than ever. And I thought, ah, that is, that’s it. And that’s why I created Copy Camp because I want people to feel like I want to help you make the best purchasing decision for you. I know we’re gonna deliver on the deliv— I, I know that we’ve, I’ve spent a long, I’ve worked with the best people. You know, there’s no one better than Dallas Travers. I mean, I’ve worked with the best people to make sure that deliverability is gonna be great. But I wanted to make sure that people could trust that from the beginning. So that’s really— Copy Camp kind of gives you— I’m not selling on Copy Camp. I’m not selling. Come for the 3 days. We’re gonna hang out. I’m gonna show you how it’s done. And then if you’re like, ooh, I really want in on this, then you can come to the Lead and Win at Work Masterclass. And there I’m gonna sell to you. So I wanted to kind of update— if we’re updating on the inside, I wanted that to be reflected in, in the area. So Copy Camp is brand new. So I, I’m really excited about it. 3 days of like this copy immersion, kind of diving in. I’m really excited about it.

Tori Boats:
So yeah, I am too.

Marisa Corcoran:
Awesome.

Tori Boats:
Great, Marisa, thank you so much for joining us today. And don’t forget – toriboats.com/ccs – to get into her world.

Marisa Corcoran:
Awesome, thanks, Tori.